Tier 2: Discussion on Readings

1.) A. Two Swords- This view basically says that there are two separate powers the church and the government. Where the church holds spiritual power and the government holds temporal power. The church is the strongest of the two because due to God being it's authority.

B.) Two Kingdoms - this view holds that there's a spiritual kingdom and a civil kingdom. God rules both of these kingdoms but operates in different ways in the kingdoms. These two Kingdoms support each other in various ways.

C. Anabaptist View - calls for there to be a separation between the two. Believing they don't belong together at all.

D. Social contract - the society and the government work together to create their way of living. The society does have the right to overthrow the government if things don't go well.

2.) I believe the government should submit to the authority of the government in all ways except when government is asking citizens/ the church to do things contrary to Scripture/Christ. Romans 13 and Acts 5 to me a fairly clear on how this should be dealt with.

3.) This is one that I really struggle with. As a believer I see it clearly when dealing with authorities trying to get believers to do what scripture tells them not to do. But other than that it's a toss up for me I need help with this point here.

4.) My view is that the government does not have the right to tell believers how and when to meet for church services. Many churches struggled during the pandemic because they gave the government too much authority at that time.

Again, I apologize for the delay.

(1) Be ready to discuss the significance of the following biblical passages in relation to our understanding of the mission of the church:

• Genesis 1:28 and 9:1, 7

• Genesis 12:1-3

• Exodus 19:4-6

• Luke 4:16-20

• Matthew 28:18-20, John 20:21-23, Luke 24:45-49, Acts 1:8

(2) How have you seen the mission of the church compromised in recent years? There seems to be an attitude of what can "we" to be more effective in our mission. This would lead to soften edges to make the church more welcoming.

In what ways might it be compromised in the future based on trends you see today? I think you see it in the Russell Moore's of the day. I don't know his heart, but "they" seem to be aligning with those who can create future hiccups with revenue/power/significance/keep your head attached to your shoulders flow.

How can we guard the church from mission drift? Speak and stand up for truth, with grace. Keep each other accountable.

(3) What is one question you have to contribute to our discussion? Is this related to the New Perspective and do they desire to bring "works" back into the salvation process?

(1) What is Steele's definition of "white guilt"? What is it, and how does it function in society? Steele defines "white guilt" as white's guilt for the wrongs done from racism. (taken from quizlet.com). It functions as whites showing preferential treatment to blacks to try and "atone" for their guilt.

(2) Although Steele wrote this book before the term "woke" had gone mainstream, what he essentially describes here is the "woke" movement in relation to racial issues. How does the woke movement differ from the civil rights movement of the 1960's? What are their respective goals, assumptions, and methods?

The "woke" movement promotes inclusion towards people that struggle with LGBTQ and other sin issues that set them apart. The civil rights movement of the 1960's focused on promoting inclusion for all people based on skin tone.

(3) How should pastors address racial issues in their preaching, teaching, and leadership?

Pastors should focus on the Gospel and treating everyone the same...even rich people (James 2). The issue is equal treatment for all based on the fear of God and not man.

(4) What is one question that you have to contribute to our discussion?

What are the best ways to fight against white guilt in ourselves?

(2) How would you respond to someone who argued, "Jesus never addressed homosexuality, so we shouldn't make a big deal of it"?

• It sounds like definitions could be all over the place depending on who you are talking to. From our perspective, Jesus does directly address homosexuality in Revelation 2:14. If there is push back that "sexual Immorality" does not include faithful homosexual relationships, I would counter with "based on what"? I was baffled whenever Vines would note "verses that have terrified homosexuals" then go to "man" to relieve that tension. It reminds you of the parable of the talents when you get to the unfaithful servant who notes, " I knew you were a hard man and was afraid". Proverbs 1:24-32 (as well a lot of Proverbs) speaks to their folly. When morality dictates theology, man will look for the way that seems "right" in their own eyes as well as the way that will "relieve" them of the condemnation that they constantly feel. The world tries to heal who the Lord is trying to break.

Proverbs 5:22-23

22 The iniquities of the wicked ensnare him,

and he is held fast in the cords of his sin.

23 He dies for lack of discipline,

and because of his great folly he is led astray.

• In the end, my argument is that scripture gives no safety net for homosexual activity. Between Leviticus and Romans 1, there is enough to be "terrified", as Vines pointed out. I do struggle with cynicism. When I think of those truly committed, my flesh says, it's your eternity, enter how you will. I don't care. But I know I should care, at least enough to make sure they are not scorners/scoffers.

  • Do not rebuke a scoffer - Proverbs 9:8

  • Shake the dust off your sandals - Matthew 10:14

• If my comment to them of not caring shakes them a little, I think I can start to have a dialog and my heart would open up.

• Either you care about what the bible says or you don't. If you do, then you have to ask why doesn't scripture provide relief from the tension or comfort from the terror? If you don't, then you should be okay accepting reality when confronted with it in eternity.  In the end, to not care about their conduct is to say you don't care about their eternity, which I know I should have more compassion.

(3) What does a good pastoral response to a church member who has same-sex attraction?

• Fight, brother/sister. Guard your heart, eyes, and mind. Renew your mind.  Hide God's word in your heart. Some of the above will be involved. Scripture does not provide relief.

• Assigning the above the above as "homework" and the commitment to it will reveal the true desire to overcome.

Colossians 3:1-5

​1 If then you have been raised with Christ, seek the things that are above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. 2 Set your minds on things that are above, not on things that are on earth. 3 For you have died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. 4 When Christ who is your life appears, then you also will appear with him in glory.

5 Put to death therefore what is earthly in you: sexual immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry.  Do not love the world or the things in the world. Get off social media and fast from entertainment.

(4) What is one question you have to add to our discussion?

• Regarding the Jude passage, one of Vines arguments was the use of "heteros" which ESV translates as "unnatural", which "strange" seems to fit. Vines linked to "Heterosexual".   I'm presuming the ESV is from the viewpoint of nature?